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slope to a cliff. you're wrong, sir. good night. >> that's a great way to decide it. >> just because you're a -- >> guys, what's for dinner? >> i spend a lot of time on cnbc because you're outnumbered doesn't mean you're wrong. >> good point. >> jared and peter, thanks very much. maybe we'll have both of you back. we'll see. all right. we're waiting on news from the supreme court. they could finally decide to take up the issue of gay marriage today. next in the spinning, boehner and obama one on one. watch out, mr. speaker. you know the president knows how to drive to the hoop. "the cycle" rolls on friday, december 7th. two years ago, the people of bp made a commitment to the gulf. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to
slope to a cliff. you're wrong, sir. good night. >> that's a great way to decide it. >> just because you're a -- >> guys, what's for dinner? >> i spend a lot of time on cnbc because you're outnumbered doesn't mean you're wrong. >> good point. >> jared and peter, thanks very much. maybe we'll have both of you back. we'll see. all right. we're waiting on news from the supreme court. they could finally decide to take up the issue of gay marriage today. next in...
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cliff spending and revenue raised in the next three weeks, and, yes, that's at the end of the month. they'll get through that, but, again, you want to have leverage when you have that conversation. that leverage is going to, i think, hinge off of what you were saying, and i think you're right. boehner has probably the better hand to play here given that really there's not a strong hand, but it's a better hand than what he otherwise would have in terms of negotiations. if he is just allowed get in the room and negotiate the deal because he knows he has all these other, you know, arrows in his quiver that he can use. >> i just -- i think it's hopeful that they went -- that he went to the white house yesterday and almost kind of hopeful that at least everybody is agreeing not to say anything, as opposed to leaking bad news. really quickly, jonathan, the president is going to michigan, and he will be -- well, he is there en route now. the right to work law in michigan could be signed as early, i believe, finalized as early as tomorrow. what is the president owe labor unions at this point
cliff spending and revenue raised in the next three weeks, and, yes, that's at the end of the month. they'll get through that, but, again, you want to have leverage when you have that conversation. that leverage is going to, i think, hinge off of what you were saying, and i think you're right. boehner has probably the better hand to play here given that really there's not a strong hand, but it's a better hand than what he otherwise would have in terms of negotiations. if he is just allowed get...
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the other thing that will happen with the fiscal cliff is the massive withdraw of government spending and we haven't talked about that as much as taxes. people with less money because of tax cuts going away would have less money to spend into the economy but also the federal government withdrawing federal spending from parts of the economy that are used to getting it, the military, et cetera but other sectors nonmilitary. that's the other piece that could hurt people. >> when we talk about the fiscal cliff and back and forth that is happening between the white house and the hill, i guess i'm confused because on one hand there is a sense that this is all par for the course, they know they're going to get a deal done, it's fine, everything is good and then there's also this sort of the pr blitz which is, we are very far from a deal. this is what ayman alluded to this, the speaker had a press conference a few minutes ago. david axelrod giving his take and john boehner giving his take. let's take a listen. >> you saying then for pr purposes -- >> the president and the speaker are very flu
the other thing that will happen with the fiscal cliff is the massive withdraw of government spending and we haven't talked about that as much as taxes. people with less money because of tax cuts going away would have less money to spend into the economy but also the federal government withdrawing federal spending from parts of the economy that are used to getting it, the military, et cetera but other sectors nonmilitary. that's the other piece that could hurt people. >> when we talk...
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short term spending cuts should be part of any fiscal cliff deal. the big news this morning is we're not going over the cliff. they have a bad hand. they're going to end up passing this middle class tax thing if that's the only thing they do. and live to fight another day. you can see the momentum building. not official but you see it. the difficulty for boehner still is passing the extension may be best of the options it is an option that a chunk of his party has said he would reject. the fiscal conservatives criticizing boehner's budget pr proposal. then you had senate republicans watching their backs, rejecting a u.n. treaty that bans discrimination against those with disabilities around the world. senator jim demint said speaker boehner's $800 billion tax hike will destroy american jobs. yes, he said speaker boehner. one party proposes increase in an effort to counter them. the other party's leadership proposes, wait for it, $800 billion in tax increases and then former alaska governor sarah palin blasting boehner's decision to remove some conse
short term spending cuts should be part of any fiscal cliff deal. the big news this morning is we're not going over the cliff. they have a bad hand. they're going to end up passing this middle class tax thing if that's the only thing they do. and live to fight another day. you can see the momentum building. not official but you see it. the difficulty for boehner still is passing the extension may be best of the options it is an option that a chunk of his party has said he would reject. the...
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. >> the speaker, last week republicans made a serious offer to avert the fiscal cliff, and most of it was based on testimony given last year by president clinton's former chief of staff erskine bolles. as he said on sunday, we have to cut spending. well, he is right. washington has a spending problem. let's be honest, we're broke, and the plan that we've offered is consistent with the president's call for a balanced approach. a lot of people know that the president and i met on sunday. it was a nice meeting. cordal. we're still waiting for the white house to identify what spending cuts the president is willing to make as part of the balanced approach that he promised the american people. you know, where are the president's spending cuts? the longer the white house slow walks this process, the closer our economy gets to the fiscal cliff. here's what we do know. we know that the president wants more stimulus spending and an increase in the debt limit without any cuts or reforms. that's not physicianing our problem. frankly, it's making it worse. on top of that, the president wants to ra
. >> the speaker, last week republicans made a serious offer to avert the fiscal cliff, and most of it was based on testimony given last year by president clinton's former chief of staff erskine bolles. as he said on sunday, we have to cut spending. well, he is right. washington has a spending problem. let's be honest, we're broke, and the plan that we've offered is consistent with the president's call for a balanced approach. a lot of people know that the president and i met on sunday....
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our economy gets to the fiscal cliff. the american people have to be scratching their heads and wondering, when is the president going to get serious? >> if there's one fact that should not be in dispute it ought to be this. the president unlike any other party to these negotiations has put forward detailed spending cuts as well as detailed revenue proposals. it is a simple fact. >> i was hoping for actual video of the grinch. to help sort things out today, we have joan walsh, editor at large of salon and did many, many things in her career and besides being steve's own boss. we are obligated to say that every single time she is on. congratulations for hiring steve. i think we have covered that. good job, joan. >> my finest moment, clearly. >> absolutely. look, there's an idea being batted around about raising the medicare age from 65 to 67. you write a lot about in it your piece today on salon.com. a lot of people exasperated at this idea. why are you against it? >> it's a terrible idea because it saves some money but it
our economy gets to the fiscal cliff. the american people have to be scratching their heads and wondering, when is the president going to get serious? >> if there's one fact that should not be in dispute it ought to be this. the president unlike any other party to these negotiations has put forward detailed spending cuts as well as detailed revenue proposals. it is a simple fact. >> i was hoping for actual video of the grinch. to help sort things out today, we have joan walsh,...
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merry cliff mas. with a dramatic name like fiscal cliff, it has to be exciting. jim? >> the president is asking for 1.6 trillion. >> $600 billion in tax hikes. >> dividends and capital gains. >> discretionary spending. >> i'm up. what happened? is it over? >> pro union protesters are swarming the michigan capitol building in lansing. >> you're disgusting. >> dude, you are from michigan, detroit. eight mile. you have to come up with better miles than busting and disgusting. if you want to win the rap battle, put effort into it. >> you have one job. one factory. when you seize every benefit you could, yo, my palms are sweaty and knees weak working in the factory building chevies. you plug it in and you win. ecologically because if it was an actual race you would not actually. you got to collect for the union or robots are going to take away our jobs or to the chinese kids with the tiny hands the work will go. this opportunity comes once in a lifetime yo. >> we are locking at heavy rain and we will see improvements as the cold front clears the area. most of the country l
merry cliff mas. with a dramatic name like fiscal cliff, it has to be exciting. jim? >> the president is asking for 1.6 trillion. >> $600 billion in tax hikes. >> dividends and capital gains. >> discretionary spending. >> i'm up. what happened? is it over? >> pro union protesters are swarming the michigan capitol building in lansing. >> you're disgusting. >> dude, you are from michigan, detroit. eight mile. you have to come up with better miles...
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. >> now the question is, what goes on with the fiscal cliff? could the number get any better? >> i think that is the hope on wall street and republicans that have been talk ug for years and of the business community and to start spending down their profits and there might be a better sort of ofavalanche, if u will. the question is, what does that deal have to look like to unleash those hopes? it probably has to be something permanent and not a punt. >> the republicans talked about two things, though. one, as you say, is about certainty and they say that businesses need that certainty to start hiring but they've also warned that if tax rates go up on the wealthy that would have have a negative impact. >> i think republican orthodoxy is bad. if you raise taxes on the wealthy, absolutely, it's going to drag on growth a bit. but the hope is among the analysts is that the positive impact of getting certainty and beyond just certainty, seeing that washington can avoid a debt limit fight, that might help boost confidence that would be very conducive to job creation. >> you bring up a
. >> now the question is, what goes on with the fiscal cliff? could the number get any better? >> i think that is the hope on wall street and republicans that have been talk ug for years and of the business community and to start spending down their profits and there might be a better sort of ofavalanche, if u will. the question is, what does that deal have to look like to unleash those hopes? it probably has to be something permanent and not a punt. >> the republicans talked...
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saying my goodness if we engage in this -- if we go over this fiscal cliff we're hurting the job market. it's fascinating to see how they change messages day by day. another example is the increase in the medicare eligibility age. this is a big thing on their wish list. this does not save money. this raises the cost of health care if you look economywide. there's not a good policy reason to do this. but it becomes a trophy. a substantiveless trophy. >> right. okay. julian, boehner's office is denying that they asked for permanent tax cuts for the rich saying any talk of making any rates permanent is moot because part of their offer is doing comprehensive tax reform next year. are you buying that? >> no. i think it's important right now to step back and understand the stage craft that the losing side in these debates always has to go through. i went through two of these negotiations very intimately when i was a staff government reform committee in '91. it's slow walking. when one side realizes they've lost debate but not able to go to their caucus and tell them they lost. in boehner's ca
saying my goodness if we engage in this -- if we go over this fiscal cliff we're hurting the job market. it's fascinating to see how they change messages day by day. another example is the increase in the medicare eligibility age. this is a big thing on their wish list. this does not save money. this raises the cost of health care if you look economywide. there's not a good policy reason to do this. but it becomes a trophy. a substantiveless trophy. >> right. okay. julian, boehner's...
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cliff. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff in. >> absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. it's only 2%. >> i want to bring in "usa today" bureau chief and welcome to both of you. where are we in these negotiations, susan? >> i think the most encouraging thing was they agreed to the to characterize the phone call. the last time around the characterization of the phone call became a controversy in itself. i think it's pretty clear that the white house and republicans think the white house hand on this is strengthening. we see the polls that you mention, pew polls this week say americans trust the president more, assume if a deal is not reached -- trust the white house more, think if a deal isn't reached it, will be the fault of republicans and it is in fact easier for democrats to go over the fiscal cliff than it is for republicans because then all t
cliff. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff in. >> absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. it's only 2%. >> i want to bring in "usa today" bureau chief and welcome to both of you. where are we in these negotiations, susan? >> i think the most encouraging thing was they agreed to the to characterize the phone call. the...
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taxpayer dollars without any limit at all. >> even as the fiscal cliff negotiations drag on in washington, wall street seems to be basically unphased. the dow jones has slipped only about 200 points since the election. why isn't wall street more on edge itself? william cohen is the author of "money and power, hold goldman sachs came to rule the world." the labor department came out with the applications for unemployment aid saying it fell sharply for the last week and stocks basically opened flat this morning as we've seen. some of that has to do more with europe than it does with washington. but what is your reasoning for why wall street hasn't displayed more of an impact from this fiscal cliff nonsense? >> thomas, what wall street hates most of all is uncertainty and it's counterintuitive, there's actually plenty of certainty now. what's going to be certain is taxes are going up. either we go off the cliff or the curb and then taxes rise for everybody and then maybe they get repealed for the middle class and others or we reach a deal and taxes go up for the wealthiest 2% and everybody e
taxpayer dollars without any limit at all. >> even as the fiscal cliff negotiations drag on in washington, wall street seems to be basically unphased. the dow jones has slipped only about 200 points since the election. why isn't wall street more on edge itself? william cohen is the author of "money and power, hold goldman sachs came to rule the world." the labor department came out with the applications for unemployment aid saying it fell sharply for the last week and stocks...
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ted nugent weighs in on the fiscal cliff fiasco something he said we drove off a long time ago. he writes in "the washington times" social security, medicaid and medicare spending needs to be slaughtered and let's stop the insanity of the right to vote of any american on welfare. once they get off well taer and are self-sustaining they get their right restored. no american on welfare should have the right to vote for tax increases on those americans working and paying taxes to support them. >>> and "the daily show's" jon stewart says maybe we should go off the fiscal cliff. >> back and forth of offers. it's pretty clear the republicans aren't going to come to the table with anything reasonable. i'll be the one to say it, i know it will be disastrous and doom our economy for years to come, let's go over the [ bleep ] cliff. fine. just leave the negotiating tables and send us over the cliff. you know why? at least for a few seconds, it will feel like we're flying. >> all right. that's going to wrap things up for me today. thanks for your time. see you back here tomorrow at 11:00 e
ted nugent weighs in on the fiscal cliff fiasco something he said we drove off a long time ago. he writes in "the washington times" social security, medicaid and medicare spending needs to be slaughtered and let's stop the insanity of the right to vote of any american on welfare. once they get off well taer and are self-sustaining they get their right restored. no american on welfare should have the right to vote for tax increases on those americans working and paying taxes to support...
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cliff instead of engaging in serious talks to avert the cliff, that includes spending cuts and tax reforms the president once supported. the white house has only offered a joke. i understand we have speaker boehner to the microphones. let's take a listen. >> when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs, the white house has wasted another week. eight days ago secretary geithner came here to offer a plan that had twice the tax hikes that the president campaigned on. it had more stimulus spending than it had in cuts. and an indefinite, infinite increase on the debt limit, like forever. four days ago we offered a serious proposal, based on testimony of president clinton's former chief of staff. since then, there's been no counteroffer from the white house. instead, reports indicate that the president has adopted a deliberate strategy to slow-walk our economy right to the edge of the cliff. instead of cutting spending, the president want to raise tax rates. but even if the president got the tax rate hike that he wanted, understand that we would continue
cliff instead of engaging in serious talks to avert the cliff, that includes spending cuts and tax reforms the president once supported. the white house has only offered a joke. i understand we have speaker boehner to the microphones. let's take a listen. >> when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs, the white house has wasted another week. eight days ago secretary geithner came here to offer a plan that had twice the tax hikes that the...
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economy over the fiscal cliff, and around the capitol there's largely the sound of silence as the white house and congress try to work out a deal behind closed doors. the president has no public events on his schedule. and all through the house, not a creature was stirring except, that is, for john boehner, who emerged to gavel the house into session this afternoon after a week's recess with his trademark holiday cheer. >> washington has a spending problem. now, the president doesn't agree with our approach. he's got an obligation to put forward a plan that can pass both chambers of the congress because right now the american people have to be scratching their heads and wondering when is the president going to get serious? >> i'm sorry, i meant his trademark ba ham bug which he's been doling out by the sleigh load. >> there's a stalemate. let's not kid ourselves. we have a debt problem that is out of control. we've got to cut spending. washington has got a spending problem. just more of the same. >> more of the same indeed. and as minority leader nancy pelosi today declared with america
economy over the fiscal cliff, and around the capitol there's largely the sound of silence as the white house and congress try to work out a deal behind closed doors. the president has no public events on his schedule. and all through the house, not a creature was stirring except, that is, for john boehner, who emerged to gavel the house into session this afternoon after a week's recess with his trademark holiday cheer. >> washington has a spending problem. now, the president doesn't...
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than they would have otherwise because of the fiscal cliff. this uncertainty, this overhang, was having a tremendous impact. that will also put pressure on the white house. the last thing you need is people underspending going into the holidays. >> their customers are those that will be primarily affected by the tax increase, a $2,000 average increase. i would imagine the majority of walmart customers would feel that immediately. >> working middle class. >> they are. steve rattner, walmart really focuses on what politicians call walmart moms. and they and other retailers are seeing in all of their internal data that their shoppers, their consumers, are very nervous. consumer confidence drives what happens between now and the end of the year. and this will have a major impact on the economy, as you showed us in your charts last time, if the white house and congress fail to make a deal. >> yeah, and you're seeing it elsewhere as well. i think business is very clearly not hiring as many people, holding back on investment. ben bernanke said yester
than they would have otherwise because of the fiscal cliff. this uncertainty, this overhang, was having a tremendous impact. that will also put pressure on the white house. the last thing you need is people underspending going into the holidays. >> their customers are those that will be primarily affected by the tax increase, a $2,000 average increase. i would imagine the majority of walmart customers would feel that immediately. >> working middle class. >> they are. steve...
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this thing we call the fiscal cliff is a law that republicans voted for and that the president steered them to vote for. and strategically, he was victorious in that. the theory of this thing was, no one wants it to happen. no one wants anything in this bill to happen. the rates to go up or all the spending cuts. but it turns out that the democrats and the president like more of what would happen on january 1 than republicans. >> do you know who agrees with you? rick santorum. i spoke to him on press pass and this is what he said. and newt gingrich, you respond after you hear this. >> the greatest leverage he has is that he put together a deal with the republicans over a year ago that gives him pretty much what he wants. which is a dramatic -- which is taxes back to the pre-bush rates. so it gets all the tax increases. and he can blame the ones that are not popular on republicans for not negotiating. he gets something that he'll never get in a negotiation. >> the rest of that conversation online, by the way, with rick santorum. newt gingrich? is that why the president and geithner are
this thing we call the fiscal cliff is a law that republicans voted for and that the president steered them to vote for. and strategically, he was victorious in that. the theory of this thing was, no one wants it to happen. no one wants anything in this bill to happen. the rates to go up or all the spending cuts. but it turns out that the democrats and the president like more of what would happen on january 1 than republicans. >> do you know who agrees with you? rick santorum. i spoke to...
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that's part of the reason we want to avoid the fiscal cliff. it's actually too much deficit reduck sln too quickly in the wrong parts of the budget. you want a more thoughtful, thought out plan. on your point about the debt ceiling, we what we need is to have certainty, know where we're headed. not have multiple showdowns but the debt ceiling is only going to be increased significantly if it goes hand in hand with a big enough deal which has real changes in the budget. so the best thing we could do is put in place a balanced plan deals with all parts of the budget and really provides the kind of sense of security that households, small businesses, everybody needs to know so we can start planning for the economy and hopefully getting things growing back again. one of the things you see is that when your debt levels are as high as they are, in this country right now, that's a tamp on economic growth and can harm growth. that's the point we're at. we know that part of a growth strategy will have to be getting control of these deficits and debt and
that's part of the reason we want to avoid the fiscal cliff. it's actually too much deficit reduck sln too quickly in the wrong parts of the budget. you want a more thoughtful, thought out plan. on your point about the debt ceiling, we what we need is to have certainty, know where we're headed. not have multiple showdowns but the debt ceiling is only going to be increased significantly if it goes hand in hand with a big enough deal which has real changes in the budget. so the best thing we...
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. >>> our country will be heading over the fiscal cliff that we ourselves dug and put in our way. it's the set of automatic spending cuts and tax hikes that can only be averted if our nation's leaders are able to display bear bones competence and middle school-level maturity. so is there a deal? >> there's, of course, no deal. >> of course! is there a prospect for a deal? >> there's not a prospect for a deal. >> of course! but the ongoing talks. >> there aren't even very many talks going on. >> you're killing us! give us something. >> but for the first time, there are numbers on pieces of paper from both sides. >> numbers on paper! >>> good morning. it's wednesday, december 5th. welcome to "morning joe." live in the nation's capital. this is exciting. and you know, i said, let's do a show from washington, d.c., because they get so much stuff done there. it's like silicon valley. and going there when steve jobs was really bringing apple to the forefront -- >> a happening place. >> it is. it's where things happen. that's why we're here, steve rattner. >> washington is the place. wit
. >>> our country will be heading over the fiscal cliff that we ourselves dug and put in our way. it's the set of automatic spending cuts and tax hikes that can only be averted if our nation's leaders are able to display bear bones competence and middle school-level maturity. so is there a deal? >> there's, of course, no deal. >> of course! is there a prospect for a deal? >> there's not a prospect for a deal. >> of course! but the ongoing talks. >> there...